John Delaney on drug prices, why Clinton lost, biking across Iowa

Former Rep. John Delaney spoke to POLITICO Thursday as part of a series of interviews with Democrats seeking to challenge President Donald Trump in 2020.

Here are key excerpts from the hour-long conversation:

On the first debate

"Well, look at the problem I had the first debate, it was pretty obvious I wasn’t going to get any questions. So, I had two options: either to not get any questions or try to wedge myself in. And I chose the latter, which I was glad I did because I was able to make some points on health care, for example, that I thought were very important to me. "

On the CNN debate

"I think CNN’s rules sound a little more on the level to me. We each get an opening and the closing of 60 seconds, as compared to just a 45-second closing. So, that in and of itself is actually a lot more time. And they’re going to enforce the no-interrupt rule by taking time off you. So, if someone were to interrupt and say something for 20 seconds, you lose 20 seconds, including on your closing. And I think that’s great. I’m all for rules. I just want them to be applied fairly. What they’ve said is, going to ask the questions fairly, and they’re going to take time away from you if you interrupt, so I think that’s actually a great setup."

On the "social media" primary

"I feel like, in general, politics has become too much entertainment and not enough the serious business that it is. That’s my general criticism of everything. But I also think that some unique dynamic has occurred this cycle, and that is this social media primary has kind of been created in advance of the Iowa caucus. And that’s a bit of a seismic shift in some ways in terms of how the primary is planned out. And I think there’s lots of reasons for it, including the fact that the DNC is requiring all these donors, I think that has oriented the primary toward what does well in social media. And I don’t like any political processes where you’re oriented toward a very small subgroup. I just don’t think that leads to good outcomes."

On having a background in government

"I think it’s ridiculous to put someone in the White House who’s never served in the government. I mean, that’s just a really, that’s just a really dumb thing to do. We’re seeing it now. You know, there’s that Malcolm Gladwell book that says, you have to be outliers, you have to do something for 10,000 hours before you actually become good at it. And I think everyone should actually serve in public service for 10,000 hours before they actually take a run at one of these big jobs, right? Because what I know now, compared to what I knew when I walked into the Congress of the United States in January 2013, is just utterly different. I know how the government works, I know you get things done. And I have a totally different perspective on how I would be president."

On his first 100 days agenda

"What I would do is I would pull out five or six big ideas in healthcare and climate, immigration, in technology policy and infrastructure, where there’s existing bipartisan proposals in the Congress of the United States. And I’d say, ‘Hey, this is our agenda is these five bills. I’m not going to change a word of them, because your good-minded Democrats and Republicans have actually found common ground there.’ And really take that case to the American people. There are things we agree with each other on. And I just think that would change the whole conversation. Really do."

…Does that mean all five of the bills are going to pass? Of course not. But I think you’ve got a pretty good chance of getting one or two of them done."

On his climate plan

"If you do what the president of France did, which is put a price on carbon and use the money to cut taxes for wealthy people, that’s not very popular. People put on yellow vests and protest. Or, if you do what Jay Inslee tried to do, who’s a great climate champion, but he tried twice in a very Democratic state to get a carbon tax passed. But the pitch was, we’ll use the money to build green energy projects. At the end of the day, the American people don’t trust government to do that.

I mean, I always go back to my dad, who was an electrician. And I grew up in a union family. And he would always say at the dinner table, there were no fancy political discussions. No socialism versus capitalism, no trickle down versus redistribution. It was very simple: If you care about workers, you vote for the Democrats. And so, with all these proposals, I say, okay, what’s good for American workers because if it was not good for American workers, you’re not going to get it done.

So, the problem with a lot of these carbon tax proposals, they’re actually not good for American workers because they increase energy costs on workers. And they will always be rejected. But if you go to workers and say, ‘Yeah, we’re gonna increase your energy costs, but you’re gonna get a check right away back in the mail’…That’s the kind of thing where you could look at American workers and say, ‘We’re going to deal with climate change, which I’m sure you think it’s a good, good thing to do, but we’re not going to hurt you in doing it.’"

On his health care plan

"My plan, which is called BetterCare, leaves Medicare alone. Medicare is not perfect, but it’s probably the least broken part of our health care…But what I do is I create a new plan that everyone gets from when they’re born until they’re 65. So, and it’s a basic federal plan that every citizen gets for free. So, every citizen in this country will be covered by health care, that they won’t have to pay for it. And I get rid of Medicaid as part of that, because Medicaid is the most broken program in this country. Reimbursement rates are so insufficient, that they’re inadequate provider networks all over the country.

But what people can do is they can either opt out of that plan and get a tax credit. So, if you all got that plan, you can say, ‘Well, I don’t want that plan. I’d rather have the health care that POLITICO gives me.’ You get a tax credit, which you turn in to the HR office here, they would use that tax credit together with other money they probably have to pay to give you your private insurance. Or you could opt out, use the tax credit to buy your own plan, or you can take that tax credit and give it to your union, if you’re in a union. Or, I think what’ll most likely happen is people will keep their basic federal health care. And then they’ll get supplemental plans."

On pressure from liberals in the party

"You have my proposal, which is actually in spirit much more aligned with the goals of the Medicare for All folks, but it’s just been developed by someone who I think actually understands the healthcare business because I was actually in the business…I was told to leave the race because I didn’t support Medicare for All.

…AOC, she told me, she told me to sashay out of the race, which I wasn’t quite sure what that meant. But I know I’ve never sashayed out of anything. So, I was a little surprised, but I was a little taken aback by that. And it’s the same thing with climate. I think I’ve got actually the best climate plan — it’s very aggressive. But it’s not the Green New Deal."

On why Hillary Clinton lost

"You know, I don’t think it had anything to do with her policies. I really don’t. I think no matter what Hillary ran on, people’s opinions of her were already poured in concrete. They were unmovable almost. I supported her, I thought she would have been a great president, actually. But I thought she made a terrible mistake on trade, by the way. I think she might have lost the election on trade. Because she reinforced in people’s views that she didn’t have a lot of conviction around things. That’s not about being too moderate. She actually went left on that if you think about it."

On taking on Trump

"I think the way you take on Trump, the way I talk about when I’m campaigning, is what we need is someone to solve problems. And he’s not solving problems, right? He’s making problems. And in fact, he’s lied about what he said he’s going to do. He said he would be the best president for farmers. Well, in fact, he’s been the worst. Look at prices of crops since he came into office, you can make the argument he’s been one of the worst in modern history. He said he’d build infrastructure. I haven’t seen any infrastructure get built. You go down the list. And then you basically tell the American people how you’re going to be the president who can get those things done."

On Joe Biden

"A lot of the ways I’m talking about how the president should conduct themselves is very similar to Biden. The difference is, he doesn’t have any new ideas. And he’s effectively just running an old playbook. Where actually, on all these issues, I have a bunch of new ideas that can allow us to reimagine our future…And I just think, at the end of the day, the vice president is effectively running on a bunch of President Obama’s policies of that administration, many of which I support.

…One, health care. You know, I’m all for doing in my first 100 days, what Joe Biden is talking about, which is to fix the ACA. That’ll be on my agenda the first 100 days because we have to do that. But then there’s, there’s not another chapter. There’s not another page to turn with his healthcare plan. Like, he doesn’t have a plan as to how we actually get to universal healthcare, which I think most Americans would intuitively want and think we deserve.

…You know, again, getting back in the Paris accord. Yeah, of course, we should do that — the next president should do that before they even sit down in the chair of the Oval Office. But there’s got to be the next reimagination, there’s got to be Paris 2.0. What is the United States’ role? I feel very strongly that the United States has a very specific role on climate globally, which is we’re going to have to come up with the technology and the innovation to save this. Because absent that the world will not change its behavior."

On fossil fuels

"So, I don’t want them to grow. But I’m also pretty clear-eyed about this thing, which is, for example, the Green New Deal calls for, you know, largely the elimination of fossil fuels in the production of our electricity in the next 12 years. That’s impossible. We don’t have the energy sources to replace it. It’s just a mathematical, physical impossibility. We can get to net zero by 2050. If we actually start aggressively now, doing things. So no, I don’t want fossil fuel consumption to grow."

On spending his own money to run

"I put $11 million at the end of the first quarter, and then I took it out the next day…Yeah, my team said it’ll look good if we have a lot of money on hand. So I said, ‘Well, I can fix that problem.’ I don’t mean to be so direct, but it gets double-counted…$7 million, still a lot of money."

On what counts as success in Iowa

"Depends how many people are in it. I don’t mean to be evasive on these answers. But if there’s five people in it, and you come in fifth, that’s not so great. But if there’s actually 18 people in the Iowa caucus, and three of them or four of them are dominant favorites, and you come in fifth, that’s actually something you all would care about."

On the fall debates

"It’s going to be interesting to see how it all plays out. Because you know, there’s the third and the fourth debate, I view them almost interchangeably. You could potentially miss the third, make the fourth and I think that’s actually fine."

On staying in shape

"I’m riding in that RAGBRAI next week. You know, the day they picked for me, my team, is the longest day of the thing. It’s like 100 miles. This is this bike ride they do across Iowa every year.

…I have to be in Indianapolis the next day to speak at something. So, I’m going to do as much as I can to make my flight to Indianapolis. So, I try to go to the gym, you know, it’s hard. I try to go the little gyms. But, you know, there’s always something. And my exercise thing in general is like, I’d like to do a lot of different things. So, I’m not that regimented. My view, it’s important to try to exercise, and I like to try to exercise five days a week. Never for that long, maybe a half hour, maybe 40 minutes early, I think. But they’re always different. I mean, sometimes I’ll, I’ll go on the bike. Sometimes I’ll go for a run. Sometimes I’ll do weights. Sometimes I’ll swim. Whatever I can do."